I’ve mention elsewhere a defining point in my young adulthood, when I was trying to prove Christianity correct in college. While there was no shortage of debaters, I was never very convincing. It happened that one of my debaters told me I was so emotionless about the truth of Christianity, so focused on facts and observations, that he didn’t think I believed what I was shoveling.
This insight has since wandered through a number of permutations inside my brain. Most relevant today, if I don’t defend what I believe then people won’t believe that I believe it. A man has to throw a punch if he wants to be taken seriously today and therefore, turning the other cheek is not the way to fish for souls.
I’ve tried being patient, kind and always letting the other guy get the last word. The other guy has consistently taken my patience and kindness for weakness.
Which brings me to the tedious conflict between Protestants and Catholics*. On one hand, there’s no bottom to that debate. Nothing to achieve. On the other hand, I have learned firsthand in real life and then on the Internet that if I hold my tongue and allow Catholics to bash Protestantism, which they love to do because their priests train them to do it, they think Protestantism is weak and the bashing increases along with their disrespect.
By contrast, when I have experimented with hitting back quickly and foully, the bashing stopped with the conversation. They respect strength, not integrity or brotherhood. At minimum, they respect that my beliefs are strong enough that I am willing to defend them. Very well then, I shall adopt a policy of reciprocity. They throw a punch, they take a punch, respect is achieved and the matter is done so far as I care.
Unfortunately, such spats rarely stop on a dime. Dalrock has every right to be annoyed with me for touching off a thread derailment in his latest post. (Although in my defense, the desirability of a PvC spat was heightened by the thread being a discussion of period blood and alternative uses for tampons.) I’m not sure how to square that with reciprocity. Christ would have me be a good guest, too.
But reciprocate I shall. Protestantism has never been so hated in history as in modern society. The Papists and atheists openly despise us and our leaders are so cucked up that they beg for their enemies’ forgiveness. What The Fuck, pastors? Why are you so eagerly ashamed of the movement that has fulfilled the Great Commission, built the two greatest nations in human history, best carried the torch of God’s Will for humanity for half a millennium (almost to the day; happy post-day, 95 Theses!), and impressed you yourselves enough that most of you hold PhDs in the subject?
My useless leaders disgust me; therefore, I myself shall uphold and defend Protestantism because they won’t, because Almighty God is a God of Laws not Proxies and because the cuckoldry of my leaders reaffirms the wisdom of Martin Luther’s life’s work.
Please join me, fellow Protestants. Do not act ashamed of what you believe. Be as quick in war as in peace. Do not let your detractors think you weak and simpering. If our brothers in the faith accept us them all is well; if they feel a need to anklebite then a quick heel stomp is well in order.
*Nota bene, I don’t distinguish between RCC and the Orthodox churches. Their failings are identical.
Who, at Dalrock said you should be ashamed?
At Dalrock’s nobody. I was thinking of the treacherous conduct of Protestant leaders when I wrote this. Catholics love to fault Protestantism and when they do, the typical Churchian reaction is rhetorical seppuku. Protestant leaders are ashamed to be Protestants and the laity have absorbed that attitude to such an extent that they don’t even think of themselves as Protestants anymore. It’s particularly obvious today as what should be a major Prot celebration passes nearly unnoticed.
This post combines my real-life experiences with my online experiences. Things may seem off-target as a result of that. It seemed a good idea to take discussion off of Dalrock’s blog so I followed your example of posting a link. This post was the most relevant.
You seem to have a convert’s disgust for what you left behind. Not unusual. I accept that you’ve found a better path but if you slander Protestantism then I feel obliged to defend my beliefs because my leaders will not and my fellow Protestants (in real life) don’t even know they should.
.which they love to do because their priests train them to do it. wtf are you talking about? MAYBE pre Vatican II, but not anytime recently. I have attended mass on 3 continents in 4 languages and have never heard a denunciation of protestantism beyond an explanation of why there are certain differences (infant baptism etc.).
Also, most Catholics currently get spiritual training from lay people, and only see or interact with a priest during mass, where the priest has roughly 10-15 minutes of sermon time (which is generally a surface level explanation of the 4 passages and may be skipped entirely).
Apologetics is of course different, and in that vein Lefebre could certainly give Chick a run for his money. However, the general tenor of the average Catholic priest won.t be too fussed about protestants, as perhaps 30-40% of his congregation is in mixed marriages with 70-80% having a mixed family. Catholic countries probably are nearer to 90% mixed if you count athiests/agnostics as mixed with the more heavily religious turning in large numbers to more charismatic protestant churches.
“I have attended mass on 3 continents in 4 languages and have never heard a denunciation of protestantism beyond an explanation of why there are certain differences (infant baptism etc.).”
That’s good to hear but hasn’t been my experience.
I’ve known several people in real life who have converted to RCC. All of them tried to convince me not just to join but that I was being disobedient to God by not joining. The behavior even poisoned a close friendship, he was so insistent.
Also, “This house is Catholic, we don’t accept solicitors from Protestants or other religions” signs are everywhere in Southern California and very insulting. Prots don’t put signs on their houses warning Catholics to stay away; why, most Protestant churches don’t even try to evangelize. Does your clergy not know the people are doing this?
Also, my recent experiment on Dalrock’s blog in which exactly one Catholic was willing to say anything positive about Protestantism on a major anniversary for us. Excepting one offhand comment, Two Crows is the only Catholic in my entire lifetime to do so. Skimming a couple Catholic blogs only found more hateful attitudes. You wouldn’t deny your faith by saying we occasionally do right by God.
Also, you’ve surely met your own share of Papists who worship the pope instead of Christ. They aren’t all Catholics, I get that, but they exist and hate us in your branch’s name.
Lastly, RCC leaders do things to make me believe they actively work to destroy the Protestant world. Their political interference on behalf of illegal immigrants being the biggest example lately:
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2017/09/05/catholic-church-leaders-condemn-trump-administrations-decision-end-daca
Hopefully this thread can clear up misperceptions. Dalrock makes blogging on complicated issues look easy.
I agree with the commentator that states that Catholics are not trained to attack Prodestants. I have attended Catholic schools and as a former military member I have been to churches in various parts of the country and it has never happened. There are regional differences, but that is another story. The closest it has come to attacking Protestantism is the priest at the parish I am at now saying “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water” when talking about the church’s problems, and he was also referring to the reformation.